1 Peter 4
1Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
Amos 3
6If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?
I would like to know your thoughts on these verses. I do not want to argue or refute anyones view. I do not mind healthy discussion but I do not wish to argue. Please feel free to comment.
Why is it that so many people do not truly believe that God is Sovereign and that Christians should suffer? I really do want to hear from both sides.
Come hang out one weekend…Tennis court right behind the house and we need to play!
Anyway, suffering (this can be defined a lot of ways) is part of the journey. Heard a guy talking about this the other day. He had a good thought.
Suffering for righteousness sake is what is biblical and very misunderstood. Suffering for Self-righteousness sake is what is most common among followers of Christ. This is man centered in an attempt to pacify a God that they don’t understand.
Agreed. Then how would you define “suffering for righteousness sake”?
That’s going to look different in the U.S. than in other parts of the world (for now).
In our context especially…1 Peter 3:13-14.
13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened.”
We might not see the suffering that Stephen, etc. saw; however, we need to be prepared as is communicated in vs. 14.
Also, there is a certain amount of suffering that will naturally take place as a result of being a follower of Christ in a fallen world.
Jeff,
Excellent topic! Allow me to bypass the verse in 1 Peter 4 and speak to the one in Amos 3. Have you ever noticed how some Christians squirm when it comes to verses like this one. Moreover, when an unbeliever confronts them and asks “Where was God when that Asian Tsunami wiped out hundreds of thousands of men, women and children?” they will sometimes make the most outlandish excuses– as if by there feable attempts they can get God off the hook. God’s not on a hook. He is sovereign and He shall dispose of His creation as He sees fit. But we in the West, with our softness and middle class angst, want God to be merely a comforter. The realities of our world mitigate against such an understanding.
Where was God during the Tsunami or hurricane Katrina? Well, to offer a Biblical response, He was bringing a calamity and laying waste to a city. Such a truth is only an embarrassment to those who refuse to take God’s word seriously. Those of us within the reformed tradition are not embarrassed by these types of scriptures. We are willing to take God’s Word as is (of course, completely by His grace and His merciful work of enlightening our understanding).
In Christ
Thank you. I agree. I would, however, enjoy hearing your thoughts on the 1 peter verse. You are always insightful and edifying. I love you.
Jeff,
I promise I will comment on the verse from Peter, but first allow me a few more comments on the other topic.
Having responded to the questioning unbeliever (and confussed believer) concerning God’s control in such matters, we can come across as uncaring and calous. Yet, we are not without natural affections. Easy for us to look from a distance at such events and see God’s hand at work (and we as believers should be the first to respond with aid), but if an earthquake on a massive scale were to strike between Memphis and St. Louis, we would be the ones seeing, first hand, these awsome acts of God. As Christ declared: “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them– do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent you too will all perish.” Lk 13:4,5
It us, the believers, who should take account of such things and stay in a state of repentence…we are no less guilty of sin than were those who drowned in the above mentioned tragedies.
The unbeliever sees such events as proof that the Christian God does not exist. This false induction has more to do with the kind of femenized god preached by many a supposed christian teacher. We must confront the unbeliever with the truth. We do have the “problem” of evil in a world created by an all loving and all powerful God. We solve the problem of pain by kissing the rod and the hand that wields it. This sounds absurd to the unbeliever. However, the unbeliever has a dilemma of his own….and one far more perplexing than that of the true believer. By refussing God and His Grace, they may think they now have no problem of evil, but this is simply because they have destroyed any basis for the concept of Good. In an atheist world, good and evil are meaningless catagories that denote nothing more than personal prefrences. The unbeliever cannot consistently live this way. He, as a creature created in God’s image, has the knowledge of God already in him. He cannot get rid of it. So he surpresses the knowledge he already has in unrighteousness. (see Romans 1:18-23)
Okay, next entry I will respond to the issue of suffering for Christ’s sake. This verse in Amos touched me because I have been dealing with an unbeliever on this specific topic.
Jeff,
As promised, here is a brief reply to the verse in 1 Peter (and, to some extent, a response to other posts concerning ‘suffering’). What is the Apostle telling us in 1 Peter 1? First, it is clear that the type of suffering refered to here is physical suffering. I remember speaking to your Grandmother about physical pain, growing old and sickness as possible blessings. I mentioned this verse and how sins of the flesh lose much of their appeal when the flesh becomes physically weak.
I find it also of some interest that other translations use phrases like “arm yourself with the same attitude”(NIV). It would seem that some would have the believer seek suffering or claim that suffering is a ‘should’ instead of simply a reality wrought through the will of God. If the ‘should’ is a required need from the believer, something the believer must attain to in order to be glorified in Christ, then we have a “law” taking shape. On the other hand, if suffering is simply a promise from God (something that WILL be present in the life of his called) then suffering is a gift–even if we would not want such a gift….after all, prior to faith, I didn’t really seek the gift of salvation in Christ, but God gave it by His grace.
So what is our attitude toward physical suffering to be? If it is suffering for the sake of Christ (and not due to our own foolishness) then our attitude should be the same as that of Christ….humble submission. Prior to His passion, Christ prayed, “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42
I would simply conclude that suffering is not something to be sought after or attained by the believer’s desire, will or strength. It is something the believer submits to in faith, as he submits to the will of God.
Your uncle on Earth, your Brother in Him
Roger
I fully agree. Thank you so much for your comments. I love you.
I love you too! You are a wonder to me…don’t wish to elaborate at this time…you simply fascinate me.